Some Notes on FISHER

I include these rough notes on FISHER because the FISHERs in Elham, Lyminge and Folkestone have many Roberts, Sarahs, Marys, a Pierce and a Pearce. Prior to 1837, records are scarce and I had to be certain that the link from my GGrandfather Robert FISHER b 1823/5 to Robert b 1729 was correct. This was my long lasting brick wall.
Fortunately, the searching diligence and clarity of thought of my first wife Valerie was offered. For her guidance I thank her sincerely. I list the sequence of records which, together with a few clues from Chris Graham-Rowe's work on RootsWeb, complete the link. There are some minor errors to correct and publish to save this exercise having to be repeated.
Robert Fisher
.
When was Robert FISHER born and which Robert is my GGrandfather?
.My GGrandfather - Robert FISHER born 1823 or 1825?.
There are a number of Census records of Robert FISHERs born about this time.
A birth year of 1825 has been established in IGI records. I
am satisfied mine is the Robert FISHER
referred to here and born 1823, for the
following reasons:
1. The names of children
listed in 1871 & 1881 Census are those known in family records.
2. GGrandmother Sarah
who died at Winterage farm 13 Aug 1881 aged 52; was buried
at Newington Church yard.
3. GGrandfather Robert retired
after her death and lived with
various family members,
(1891 Census), until he died 4 March
1911 aged 88. He is buried at Hythe Church Yard.
All references in
Isabella FISHER's family history notes were written
without knowledge of Census records, refer to
birth year
1823, death in 1911 and residence at the
Black Bull
(1871 Census), Canterbury Road, Folkestone and
Winterage Farm,
Acris.
(1881 Census)
In the 1871 Census GGrandfather Robert has given his age as
46, a possible error of one year which together with not yet
celebrating his birthday that year, might suggest the year "1825",
and this year
has been coupled with his birth in
RootsWeb publications, in error. He also forgot his age at
his wedding to Sarah as the
certificate
shows.
Pierce FISHER is recorded, age 40 (b1801) in
1841 Census
with wife Mary and family including
Robert age 16 (b 1825). This is the record that
tends to affirm Robert's DOB erroneously as 1825. With so many
references to 1825 in the records, it throws doubt
on the accuracy of Aunty Bell's (Isabella FISHER)
family records. However, the IGI records are all deduced DOBs. Robert died in 1911 when Bell (b
1899) was 12 and her notes were made in her 70s
sourced from other family members. One could argue
poor memory and age throw doubt on her accuracy. The weight of
evidence from Census records suggests I should withdraw my lifelong
respect for the infallibility of Aunty Bell. I do
not. Although not knowing his birth day she is
confident of the year 1823 throughout..
However none of this throws doubt on the correct
identification of Robert FISHER with so much other
supporting evidence. In Elham baptism records, his
baptism is given clearly as 25 Jun 1824 and father spelt Pearce,
so I conclude, he was born in 1823, baptised in
1824 and used 1824 as his birth year, often
understating his age at Census time leading to 1825 often being recorded.
Pearce and Mary were married on the 17 April 1824 and Robert baptised on 25
June 1824 and so understatement may have been encouraged.
Records concerning the pedigree of Robert Fisher b 1823
Name | Birth | Baptism | Marriage | Spouse | Father | Mother | Birth Place |
Robert2 Fisher | 1823 | 1824 (1) | 1849 | Sarah Taylor | Pearce (2) | Mary C | Elham |
Sarah Taylor | 1829 | 1849 | Robert2 Fisher | Hawkinge | |||
Peirce2 Fisher | 1799(3)? | ? | 1824 (4) | Mary Court | ? | Mary G | Lyminge |
Mary Court | 1803 | 1824 | Peirce2 Fisher | William | Elizabeth | Elham | |
Peirce1 Fisher | 1770 | 1770 (5) | 1802 | Mary Graves | Robert1 | Jane P | Lyminge |
Mary Graves | 1780 | 1780 | 1802 | Pearce1 Fisher | William | Mary | Elham |
Robert1 Fisher | 1730 | 1731 (6) | 1757 | Jane Pearce | William | Piercey F | Monks Horton |
Jane Pearce | 1728 | 1757 | Robert1 Fisher | Edward | Elizabeth M | Egerton | |
William Fisher | 1695 (7) | 1723 | Peircy Fagg(8) | Thomas (9) | Brabourne | ||
Thomas Fisher | 1677 (10) | 1693 | Mary Wood | John | Elizabeth | Brabourne |
Analysis of records
(1) The baptism and marriage
records of Robert Fisher both show Pearce Fisher b 1799 as
Father.
(2) The spelling "Pearce" is used in Elham church baptism
records of his children: Robert, and Mary, but "Pierce" for
the later, Harriet, Eliza and Frederick.
(3) I find no baptism record for Peirce Fisher b 1799,
although Graham-Rowe quotes 13 Oct 1799. There is a
reference on IGI to a Peirce FISHER baptised at Lyminge on
this date in which the surname may have been recorded
erroneously. Crucially there is a baptism record of a
Peirce GRAVES at Lyminge for this date s/o Mary GRAVES. Pearce died in Elham 1878 having been finally
recorded on the
1871
Census in Folkestone.
(4) The marriage record of Pierce Fisher b1799 to Mary
Court shows no parent names. There is no evidence of a link
to father, Pearce b 1770 as IGI suggests. This link is
assumed on the basis of family group location and the
baptism reference (4).
(5) The baptism record of Peirce b 1770 clearly gives Robert
and Jane as parents. His marriage record uses both
spellings.
Pearce FISHER died 1845 ......
death cert
shows Peirce age 75 and informist Sarah "Bushel" at
Barham..
(6) There is a link to the father of Peirce b 1770 in his
baptism record and one concludes this is Robert b 1730
nearby at Monks Horton, who married Jane PEARCE which
indicates the origin of the christian name "Pearce".and the
confusion with "Peircey ", his GMothers first name.
(7) Robert's father William b 1695 of Brabourne, is the
only local William Fisher of marriage age in 1723.who
coincidentally married a "Peircy". Thus the name
"PEARCE/PEIRCE/PIERCE flows back through the generations.A tenuous
link but a plausable one on which to base genealogical
deductions.
(8) The image of the 1723 marriage record in Canterbury
shows "ffagg" i.e."FAGG". "Peircy" of parish Stanford.
(9) Monks Horton and Brabourne are adjacent hamlets 4 miles
west of Lyminge.
(10) This baptism record is the only record of a
Thomas in this area (Brabourne) of an age to be the
father of William.
Robert b 1823 back to Thomas FISHER b 1674
By accepting the baptism record for Peirce GRAVES 13 Oct 1799 at Lyminge as that for the baptism of Peirce2 FISHER, to mother Mary GRAVES, and accepting the uniqueness of the recorded names in the close location of Brabourne, Monks Horton and Lyminge, it is safe to assume that Thomas FISHER bap 1674 is the ancestor of Robert Fisher bap 1824 and thus my GGGGGGGrandfather. I am sure Peirce1 would have done the honourable thing: and the clue is in the name.
Household Census records for Robert Fisher
1841 Census age 16 at North Elham with Pierce and Mary.
(Note: 1841-16=1925)
1851 Census
age 26 at Newington Hill with Sarah and 1 dayghter Sarah.
1861 Census
age 36 at Swingfield with Sarah and 4 children
1871 Census
age 46 at the Black Bull Folkestone with Sarah and 5 children
1881 Census
age 57 at Winterage Farm with Sarah and 4 children. Sarah died
13 Aug 1881 at Winterage Farm.
Daughter Harriet married William May and stayed on as tenant
at Winterage after he died.
1891 Census age 66 at Cheriton, widower, retired and
alone. Is this he?
1901
Census age 78 at the Mount Elham living with sister
Elizabeth Sharpe. (Note: 1901-78=1923)
That Robert died 4 March 1911 aged 88 is recorded in Belle
Fisher Notes
Household Census records for Pierce Fisher
1841 Census
age 40 at Elham with Mary COURT age 35 and 6 children (James
age 2) and William COURT, Mary's father.
1851
Census age 55 at Elham with Mary age 47 and son James aged
11.
1861
Census age 60 at Newington with Mary age 57 and son James
aged 21 and Thomas CLAYSON boarding.
1871 Census age 73 at Mill Lane, Folkestone with Mary age
69 and daughter Ann and 2 CLAYSON children.
Pierce died in 1878 in Folkestone.
In the 1861 Census Ann Clayson is housekeeping for her sister
Mary's MOUNT family in Cheriton after her death in March 1861.
Ann Clayson marries James McGuire c 1876. The
1881 Census shows the new family and widowed Mary COURT.
Most parish records use the spelling "Peirce" and this is also one of the two spellings associated with "Peircy FAGG", the other being "Piercey". The spelling "Pierce" occurs frequently in Census records.